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Rebekah Lee's avatar

Your comment mimics my feelings perfectly:

"a dull ache of disappointment and a feeling of dread. And I find myself wondering: Are there others who feel the same way? Is the Israeli government just putting on a brave face to downplay a brazen act of betrayal?"

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Sam Hilt's avatar

I felt this way so strongly yesterday. Now, as events continue to unfold, I'm less sure. I'm not going to be placing any big bets until things settle down a bit.

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Mike Perceval's avatar

Well Sam, I think we can all agree that ‘things are not as they seem’, though the initial ‘bliss’ of that near-universal agreement is quickly shattered by the widely divergent subsequent narratives…

Perhaps more to follow later, but what immediately came to mind was the shrieking of ‘Baghdad Bob’…

Narratives have a certain potential power, but they cannot create or change reality in and of themselves. There are other, larger, forces at play.

Whether it be Jeremiah standing against the combined forces of the priesthood, (false) prophets, civil and royal authority, or Athanasius of Alexander in a later era, what truly matters, is G-d’s Truth, and His hand in the world’s affairs.

Darkness comes before the Dawn, but the Dawn comes, regardless.

Patience, my friend…

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Sam Hilt's avatar

I would say that I'm not feeling impatient. Confused and disappointed would be more like it. It's a bit like watching a movie that keeps you guessing after a good guy turns out to actually be the villain. Actually, I hate movies like that! ;-)

By the way, who was "Baghdad Bob?"

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Mike Perceval's avatar

I believe I understand your feelings Sam. But my sense is that stopping under the circumstances, with such overwhelming success against the Iranian nuclear and ballistic missile programs, was a very astute move for both Israel and America; especially in regard to securing American public support for future joint actions, if necessary.

‘Baghdad Bob’ is Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf, the former Minister of Information under Saddam Hussein during the American invasion. He was a Goebbels-like figure, claiming that the attacking American forces were going to be annihilated, etc, etc.

G-d bless, Mike

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Sam Hilt's avatar

Now that the dust is settling, the only thing that seems clear to me is that Trump has an agenda beyond the destruction of Iran's nuclear project. Apparently he believes that he can accomplish it even with a toothless Iranian regime still standing. He was more concerned that a collapsed Iran would disintegrate into rival militias fighting one another for the foreseeable future, as in Libya and elsewhere. Which would definitely throw a wrench into his plans.

So, it looks to me like he will let the Mullahs stay in power, at least until there's a united opposition that has a reasonable chance of seizing power. And soon we will get to see what he has up his sleeve.

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Mike Perceval's avatar

In due course, all becomes clear indeed. In the meantime, we have to grapple with limited information and the capacity to absorb, accept, and understand what we can see..

There are perhaps innumerable possible outcomes that could be promoted as likely. But, for me, the template by which any and all are weighed is that provided by the Word of G-d.

What I see there, is that, while Iran may be significantly de-fanged, and gladly so, the day will come when she will join with Russia, Turkey, and others to physically invade the Land of Israel.

BUT, G-d…

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Daisy Moses Chief Crackpot's avatar

yeesh, I'm SO feelin' the same too...kinda like I spent a lost weekend on a spinnin' Wheel of Fortune in Vegas arrivin' with desert sand in my eyes on'na Hunter Thompson sidecar, unable ta git out an' enjoy the neon (holdin' both my breath & my eggzileration), knowin' the "aviator" might take off any minute... both fulla 100% proof energy an' a lotta fear & possibly loathing (b/c it's all kayfabe) an' knowin'.... I'm on a "transactional" ride (press junk-it!), a trojan gift "packed" with a lotta risks!

ultimately, it's goin' as preDICKted...our show-runner in chief has always been in the casino bizness.... an' gamblin' is 'bout bluffin' an' leavin' nobuddy quite "trustin'" the house.... nor wantin' ta fully up & leave it (mentor Roy Cohn taught the Donald well...)

So yup, a transactional ride it's been fer MORE 'n 12 days....

https://www.dollpeddlar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/22007-3-scaled.jpeg

(note: room fer all 72 plastic virgins on all flights, all named Melania 2.Oh!)

Even with the Donny & BB Buddy Flick pre-release, I wuz waitin' fer the other foot ta drop! Allowed myself a little gen-u-ine (non-Bronx!) cheerin' from the grandstand hopin' irrationally that DJT made a fast bluff / move at the high stakes (steaks?) table an' would help Israel whoop (Ham)ass & make sum MullahGatwny Stew whut besides... but that cathartic one-armed bandit-release of optimism wuz the exeption ta my prior take on the entire thang bein'... trans-actional...

When DJT took the Winged PaleAss in the sky & trusted Steve "WhutKopf?" already much-plagued with Catarrh-itis to run his MiddleEasternDeli servin' up gold-plate specials... I kinda knew....

Still might be surprises 'a comin' but I ain't holdin' my breath now... fool me once, right? It's all powdered eggs gettin' rubbery on sterno, a showy buffet but on closer inspection.... the eats iz ersatz... meh!

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Sam Hilt's avatar

My take on Steve Whutkopf is that he was chosen deliberately to muddy the waters. He's clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed, but he doesn't realize that. And he's oblivious to the fact that Trump uses him to present dis-information which he shares in good faith with utmost sincerity. He's loyal to a fault, and utterly clueless. It would be hard to invent a better envoy to opponents and enemies than this sad-sack Polonius.

When he told the Iranians that they had two weeks to get their act together, they knew they were getting the inside scoop from Trump's trusted friend and crony. Worked like a charm, didn't it?

It's gonna take a while to get used to the fact that nothing is what it seems anymore. It's like when Groucho would say, "But, seriously, now..." And you would listen seriously for a few moments until you realized that this was just Groucho's way of setting up his next joke.

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Daisy Moses Chief Crackpot's avatar

100% with ya..."WhutKopf?" (no head on hiz shoulders) is loyal ta DJT but otherwise a sack've hammers! It wuz ARCH fer Trump ta pick'im.... far more than I figgered tho! Zo at first I said "que pasa?" an' why choose a bottom-line Bottom (donkey ears free!)---'er as ya said, a Sad Sack Polonius ( a ditzy parent to father such a crappy deal--"Oaf Feel Ya's" daddy, right?!) to navigate a deal an' alienate Israel? Why him?.... But then when Trumpenstein turned on a dime & played Gap Band "You Dropped the Bomb on Me" with IRanI Ran than I thought...okay, that wuz kayfabe fakeroo--we were s'poosed ta think Witless WhutKopf wuzza dumpkopf but perhaps Trump USED him not ta "TransAct" but ruther ta FOOL Ahab & Pals over in Catarrh an' distract 'em while he & BB made plans... but THEN (cuin' Pete Seeger here...) Turn Turn Turn again an' the guy wuzza red herring only loyal ta whut wuz Royal...after all.... (whiplash anyone?)

Yes, it wuz a set up. An' I as yet cannot figger it all out only that it's disheartenin' (after allowin' myself a bit of sillybration)... an' we WERE set up. All that said, bein' a YUGE fan'a Groucho.... it's an insult ta that GREAT talent --a jooish surrealist no less! (tho' one equally fond of the spot lights...) ta compare 'im ta that much taller fella with an equally silly walk---i.e. the one makin' Middle Eastern HASH who talks the talk not ta evoke laughter--but ta turn the milk sour 'fore it even leaves the (cash) cow. No fan've the Left I Left but I'm not at ALL sure that Teflon Don was ever a fan of Israel.... we do we gots? Nobuddy! :-(

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Sam Hilt's avatar

I think that Trump admires Israel for its guts and smarts. But he is not somebody whose eyes tear up when he hears Gesher Tsar Mi'od. We're fortunate that Israel apparently plays an important role in his mega-plan to remake the Middle East.

I think we'll just need to keep one eye on the Mullahs for the foreseeable future, and make sure they don't start getting too big for their britches. And we should be grateful that Ivanka fell in love with a Jewish guy.

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Daisy Moses Chief Crackpot's avatar

mebbe so....I sure hope so....I've seen him SEEM ta react with respect (but that pullin' out the chair thing wuz weird!...) an' then also talk in the most belittlin' way.....'bout both Israel & BB (who iz indeed a little iffy but ya don't treat 'im like he's yer golf caddy either...). I'm not Zo sure Israel "factors inta" them plans... Quatar's got way more than Israel, Saudis too...."similar tastes in the Midas touch too" (oy). I worry that once Israel is no longer indispensable.... they're gonna be screwed..... Mullah's are already too big fer their britches which is why they wear them "man dresses!"... 'nuff room fer an entire harem under thar! I'm muey glad DJT's got jooish gran'kids but I'm notta fan of The Jared... who headed up OWS with Alex Azar.... big coup fer big pharma.... lotta dead bodies on their hands an' Trump won't own it or the role he allowed JarJar ta play in it.... an' J's daddio wuz a bone-a-fied crook! (I know The Don had his share of iffy buddies too...)... I just cain't tease it out.... he's a Player.

An' "WHite Amurikins" git all bent outta shape sein' The Donald kissin the W. Wall (I think it's when in Rome...) but then again... that man is always "on" fer the camera.... So I still got whiplash but after all that "finish da job" stuff Teflon Don pulled out....warus interruptus.... again, he's transactional, it's all a game... I feel Israel got handed $200 after passin' "Go" but they ain't gonna give 'em that git outta jail free card....

FWIW.... Bob really said it all... crystal ball?! dang....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxzENmD0UIE&t=4s

Ok, Gesher Tsar Mi'Od... (this gal's gotta voice!....)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEpa5eGFbh0&list=RDiEpa5eGFbh0&start_radio=1

or this....

https://youtu.be/913jZFL1bdE

anywhoo...I'mma gonna try not ta git too down 'bout this.... I just worry we're seein' hist'ry repeat itself!

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Sam Hilt's avatar

Better than getting all depressed would be introducing some neck stretching and strengthening exercises into one's daily routine to avoid the risks of whiplash. Which I suspect will with be with us for the un-foreseeable future.

Yes, there's some unsavory elements in the soup, some truly puke-worthy, others merely in bad taste. Still, when all is said and done, given the neighborhood and its choice of metaphors, it's already a great achievement to have a seat near the head of table and not to be just an item on the menu. The Maître D' occasionally reminds his distinguished clientele that he is also the Big Cheese and that this is not a vegan restaurant. And to disabuse anyone who misreads his rhetorical paeans to fraternal collaboration, a sharp tug on the back of one's chair usually suffices to clarify that there's a Grand Poo-Bah and it ain't you.

Beyond my expression of gratitude to my present interlocutor for her pithy and delightful prose, additional thanks are due for that spectacular rendition of the Narrow Bridge. Now I need to find a YouTube video that explains how I can set it up on my phone as my wake-up tune to start my day with all burners blasting.

And, last but not least, I think the invocation to the angels offers the only plausible explanation for how anyone can accomplish impossible feats flawlessly on a first try.

I think History has already repeated itself so many times that God started getting bored. Do we dare to imagine that we're writing a new chapter?

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Daisy Moses Chief Crackpot's avatar

lol re the whiplash... mebbe sumbuddy needs ta re-design one'a them hilarious neck brace / whiplash collars -- various versions!--the Mond-re-Ahnk, The GeeOhToe, The NavelSohn, etc.... an' we joos wear 'em preventatively.... soft-ahrt TallisMen?! gotta "brace" ourselfs!

Totally agree with ya re Mayo Big Cheese--when my "bek" mends I have a DJT piece that axe-u-ally has im in that "Roll" (given his MickyDeez connections...) There's even a WEIRD Adult Swim eppysode where he's AssAssInated "AS" Big Cheese.... gotta lotta stacks in the hopper this this one's interestin'....

Anywhoo... yes, we might be writin' a new chapter (a noo book?)....thank GOD qvestion'in' is the M.O. an' not the exception...I daresay it ain't boredom tho' clearly it ain't our lot ta be complacent!-- but there seems ta be some added branches ta the already challengin' obstacle course includin' pull-ups & monkey bars! Oy.

Yestiddy I found Tzlil Berko's post on the warus-interruptus more in my line'a thinkin'... she ain't a Debbie downer but her righteous outrage is imho well-placed. I DO hate the Mullahs are cheerin' vict'ry an' the MSM an' the AltMeeeDIA haters are all repeatin' it...seems many writers I'm readin' see the entire 12day "fiasco" as giant lap-dance performative, not effective (I do think we've at least DELAYED the explosive inevitable fer a good 4 years)....

Tzlil's fierce but funny an I like her spunk! (also feel she's spot-on here..)

https://tzlilberko.substack.com/p/a-ceasefire-with-iran-is-just-duck

Glad ya liked that hauntin' version of Narrow Bridge by Maayan--her voice is so resonant, the orchestration just right (a balance not oft-achieved). NO clue how ta use it fer yer a wake up tune...semi-luddite here I barely master my "dumb phone" -- my go-to suggestion is "ask yer kids!" (I take this advice all the time!)

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Daisy Moses Chief Crackpot's avatar

ps Ceasefire?!--oil-fueled "Greasefire!" (call this out in a crowded war theater!).... which also means "yer toast!" iz now "burnt" which heppens when ya butter both sides BEFORE puttin' the "bread" in the toaster...)

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Sam Hilt's avatar

But it's the only way you can be sure that a dropped slice of toast will always land with the buttered side down. It's the pessimist's surefire strategy for always being right about things not turning out well.

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Daisy Moses Chief Crackpot's avatar

sure nuff, tho' I'd say not so much PessiMystic as a cagey gamble (like fundin' both sides've a war) an' seein' how things look from "boids-eye view" when SHTF. Imo, it looked at it like TransactionTrumpery.... settin' up both sides buttered (Israel's an' then Iran's bof...,) instead of givin' a good ol' schmear ta the right one ;-) (leetle salt, even bettah!)

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Alan, aka DudeInMinnetonka's avatar

12-hour imposed ceasefire without involving warring parties meaning 7 hours ceasefire for Israel after midnight arrival, Trump has a tizzy over a 7 minute breach caused by a breach caused by the Iranians, a conundrum indeed. 🤦

George Webb wrote this morning of a government in exile forming in Pakistan and idf/mossad doing hits ongoingly in Iran.

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Sam Hilt's avatar

I felt quite different about the whole thing after I read a comment this morning from an Israeli official that Israel was planning to keep boots on the ground in Iran for the foreseeable future. The really changes everything. I'm slowly coming to terms with the simple truth that I really have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. So, I think it's premature to exclude the possibility of pleasant surprises.

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Alan, aka DudeInMinnetonka's avatar

Baghdad Bob was the spokesperson for Saddam as they were getting their ass kicked he reported how American tanks were in ruins and soldiers were surrendering to the superior Iraqi forces or other farcical made up bullshit, the entire Gaza press corps has been Baghdad Bob.

For my understanding they have infiltrated Iranian management so much so that it's been written about in the papers before the smoting that occurred, it should have continued and hopefully it is and yes nobody knows what is and isn't.

The best part of waking up is knowing that Kamala lost to Trump

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Sam Hilt's avatar

I remember a scene from the Iraq war where a gov't spokesman was telling a reporter that American troops were fleeing in disarray. When, all of a sudden, America soldiers broke into the newsroom and that was the end of the broadcast.

The only thing I've seen that rivals that was the recent clip of the Iranian reporter reading the news when the building is hit and the ceiling starts collapsing and she suddenly jumps up and runs for her life! Hard to beat...

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Alan, aka DudeInMinnetonka's avatar

Another favorite is the Lebanese TV woman dressed in the islamo uniform shaking her head as she hears of nasralla being vaporized🤪

I'll have to look up the Iraq debacle, guys that never had a voice like Baghdad Bob who was mockable.

I have video of that I will post a note for giggles, lebanon's behaving as a result of corrective measures 👁️‍🗨️

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Sam Hilt's avatar

I would enjoy seeing the video whenever you get around to posting it. Giggles are good medicine these days!

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Alan, aka DudeInMinnetonka's avatar

I replied to your email with it LMK if it did not work

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Alan, aka DudeInMinnetonka's avatar

I made a note of it here last night, I'm unsure how to find it

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Alan, aka DudeInMinnetonka's avatar

Another favorite is the Lebanese TV woman dressed in the islamo uniform shaking her head as she hears of nasralla being vaporized🤪

I'll have to look up the Iraq debacle, guys that never had a voice like Baghdad Bob who was mockable.

I have video of that I will post a note for giggles, lebanon's behaving as a result of corrective measures 👁️‍🗨️

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PM Trehearne's avatar

The ache of disappointment I feel is rather around those inside Israel, at least some of whom are Jewish, who are working for Iran. My feeling of dread is for those Mossad agents who may still be inside Iran. I fear, of course, Iran's intentions in the longer term and hope that not only were Israel and the United States wildly successful but that there is some serious effort inside the Iranian community to seize the opportunity it seems they have been presented.

The mercurial Mr. Trump called time out which surely must have suited the Iranians. Whether they will 'come to the table' and negotiate a serious and binding agreement, I very much doubt. I think it likely suited Israel to take a pause as well since it seems they achieved most of their objectives and needed the off-ramp Trump provided. It also gave them a chance to thank Trump for his intervention by making him look good for ending the 12-day war. My fear is that, as in the case of all the proxy ceasefires, this one will only prove temporary. The war is not over and, subject to regime change, the Iranians will be harder to defeat next time.

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Sam Hilt's avatar

It's been a real challenge to try to follow the battle and to make some sense out of what Trump is up to. Every time I think I have some insight into his playbook, I find myself bewildered. Trump seemed to be genuinely surprised that the Ayatollah didn't want to negotiate and was proclaiming that Iran won the war. Really? Nothing could be more predictable.

If Trump was genuinely surprised, God help us all. If this was all another bit of political theater, then what was gained by giving the Iranians a chance to recover and rebuild their defenses? I'm waiting and hoping to be pleasantly surprised by the next move that Trump pulls out of his magic hat. But at this point I'm heavily skeptical.

There's not a snowball's chance in hell that Iran has any interest in becoming a constructive player in Trump's dream of a new Middle East. Everyone knows that. Is it really possible that Trump didn't?

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