This is the most informative (while extremely entertaining) read I have had on the subject. I love the dichotomy and use of Virtual Palestine. Best line is the Never Never land one. Clear timeline of the “virtual creation” of the state and a people that never were.
Precious Life was an interesting documentary that changed my perceptions of the conflict. I think about it whenever I read about the increasing Islamic infiltration of the US and Europe. I don't think many westerners, especially women, would like living in a Muslim majority country, yet many have been conditioned to believe that allowing a huge influx of such migrants will not change the laws of our society.
It seems like it has already begun, what with the restrictions on amplifying the call to prayer in NYC being recently lifted? In Europe, recent events seem even more concerning, like the assaults on western women in Germany and the UK and the frequent bombings in Sweden.
Very good essay. Roman's have a lot to answer for. But the virtual Palestine "cause" has taken off with due to the following factors.
1) Social media explosion 2) Dumbing down of humanity.
3) Inability of human beings to maintain their attention span for more than 2 mins
4) The rapidly dying ability for humanity to read long form (forget books).
5) Suprisinfly savvy social media narratives created by the people supporting "Palestine".
Causation/Correlation, I don't know.
But I never ever actually believed that in my life time, the Jewish people would have to defend their right to exist. But then I never thought a bankrupt real estate guy from New York would be POTUS twice.
It is obvious that there is no historical argument for a Palestinian people in the sense of an ethnic or otherwise recognizable cohesive social continuity. This is an important point. That said we are still left with the reality of those people living in the area discussed and respecting their human dignity is never in question.
Yes, I agree completely. The Arabs within Israel proper (20% of the population) enjoy full civil rights under law, and they work in all sectors of Israeli society, including health care and high tech. Their human dignity is never called into question. Unfortunately, there are also Arabs that have been fed a steady diet of lies and incitement, both in and around Israel. And they have been convinced through propaganda and brainwashing that the Jews are evil creatures who stole their land. And that their highest goal in life must be to murder their Jewish neighbors. And that remains the biggest obstacle to peace.
And then, just to balance things out when it comes to denying the existence of a people, there is the best selling book “The Invention of the Jewish People” by Professor Shlomo Sand of Tel Aviv University.
Sands is a professor in French nationalism and cinema with no expertise in Jewish history. His intellectual slant is as a communist, anti-nationalist, anti-zionist. His purpose was to invalidate the notion of a Jewish people/nation with roots in ancestral homeland dating back 3000 years. In his book he provides no source material and merely brushes off the plethora of contrary historiography as fabrication. The book is an exemplar of cherry-picking confirmation bias.
By the way, are you familiar with the Protocols? You would be correct about it's lack of popularity in Israel.
Well, if we can’t agree that having ancestors who lived on and in a land for a mere 125 uninterrupted generations isn’t enough to make a claim to a homeland then I’m sure that you and I both agree that the only alternative sound basis for foreigners to declare a right to a homeland in Palestine is DNA testing to ensure that only people with DNA matching the DNA of the ancestors who lived there 1500 years ago are granted the right to this homeland. Merely saying one is a cultural Jew is certainly not enough if there is little to no DNA connection.
Perhaps this is why Israel is so vigorously opposed to DNA testing?
Firstly, Jews have always lived in their homeland, with presence in Jerusalem, Tiberius, Safed, Gaza, Yaffo/Acre; Beer Sheva, Shechem (now known as Hebron)...I could go on, but you get the point, I'm sure. Arabs( as in Arabian peninsula - Yemen actually) arrived in the 5 th century AD the earliest, so who exactly are you referring to as "foreigner"? I'm pretty sure 3000 years trump's ( no pun intended, believe me) 1500 years, no? The further irony is that "non-Jews" living in the land for generations -not the mass immigration of Moslems from Andalusia that coincided with Jewish immigration from Europe ( eastern and southern) at the end of the 19th century, or the immigration from Syria and Egypt in the 20th century looking for work as the growing Jewish population had cleared the swamps, eradicated malaria and irrigated the deserts,improving life expectancy that had been only 25 years among the non-Jews at the beginning of the 20 th century, as well as infant survival - those non-Jews living in the area were most likely the descendents of forced conversions of native Jews by Christians and Moslems in the Middle Ages.
The DNA issue is a straw man as the Jewish nation has always been multi-ethnic and multi-racial, not to mention the genetic material issue can certainly cut both ways. By the way, perhaps you've been listening to too much Bilzarian BS...genetic testing is quite permissable in Israel...it is prohibited in France, I believe.
So now we’re arguing about whether people should be dispossessed based on 1500 vs 3000 years, even if all those from the tribe making the claim based on the 3000 number were absent for a mere 1000 plus years? You really want to rely on that argument? Even where Ashkenazis with little to no Levantine DNA are concerned?
Hopefully you’ve noted that I’ve never said the Jews should leave Palestine, while you skew very close to indicating the opposite. It’s clear that the two state solution is dead and has been since the demise of Oslo and the endless movement of squatters onto stolen land outside Israel’s borders. So we are moving on to a one state “from the river to the sea” solution at Israel’s initiative where, initially, the populations of each of the two tribes will be about equal. It’s long been recognized the demographics will inevitably lead to an indigenous Arab majority. We both know the old chestnut about how Israel could be either a Jewish state or a democracy but not both. Well, here we are.
Even you won’t suggest ethnic cleansing based on the premise that your neighbors should be driven out since their ancestors have only been there for a mere 1500 years (while a Jew who hasn’t had an ancestor in Palestine for any of those 1500 years can move there from Chicago and instantaneously have 50 times the rights of the indigenous people). The Arabs aren’t leaving, nor should the Jews. Rwanda and Ireland have shown us that two tribes in conflict can live together in relative peace and equality.
Democracy, one person/one vote, majority rule that protects the rights of the minority, a state of all its people with absolutely equal rights for all.
If you find any of these things objectionable given the outcome that Israel has unilaterally selected, please advise.
Not at all unusual in Israel, where well north of half of the Jews are non-observant agnostics. The figures are worse than that in the U.S. Yet we continuously hear that all of Palestine without question belongs to Israel because God said so.
We also frequently hear that Jews who accept Jesus as their Messiah have forfeited the right to be Jews but that Jews who don’t believe in God at all are still Jews in good standing. Go figure…
Now I can't speak to what "you might hear" about the rational of Jewish indigenous claim to Israel, nor what might constitute "a Jew in good standing"- perhaps you might venture out of your echo chamber, if the cognitive dissonance isn't too painful for you
So you are, and I am glad. We are probably of similar age and are able to enjoy a little substack trash talking without getting our hackles up…now if I could only figure out how to do a”smiley face” emoji, I would! Wait, there it is!😀
Thanks are due to you and Dan for carrying on a conversation on this supremely contentious topic without descending into bitterness and ad hominem attacks. If this is "substack trash talking," then you two have set a gold standard that is truly admirable.
Israel should set up something like BDS and get people to boycott Palestinian products – oh, wait a minute- they don’t produce any. Even the keffiyehs are made in China.
Your comment was somewhat ambiguous so I visited your substack and now I understand where you are coming from. Hardcore antisemites who incite Jew-hatred through malicious, patently false propaganda are not welcome here.
This is the most informative (while extremely entertaining) read I have had on the subject. I love the dichotomy and use of Virtual Palestine. Best line is the Never Never land one. Clear timeline of the “virtual creation” of the state and a people that never were.
Thank you for these kind words. Glad that you can't see me blushing.
It's a real pleasure to be appreciated in a thoughtful comment.
Very pleased to see that you've subscribed!
It really is a great article and not just informative, but humorous about a serious topic without being dismissive.
It’s misinformative.
Precious Life was an interesting documentary that changed my perceptions of the conflict. I think about it whenever I read about the increasing Islamic infiltration of the US and Europe. I don't think many westerners, especially women, would like living in a Muslim majority country, yet many have been conditioned to believe that allowing a huge influx of such migrants will not change the laws of our society.
It seems like it has already begun, what with the restrictions on amplifying the call to prayer in NYC being recently lifted? In Europe, recent events seem even more concerning, like the assaults on western women in Germany and the UK and the frequent bombings in Sweden.
We cannot let them into the USA. Deport them all back to virtual Palestine and virtual afterlife
Dehumanisation of your victims is a critical part of genocide.
Thank you, Sam, for a very engaging summary of this conflict
When the Roman Empire drove the Jews from Judea it named the territory Palestine.
Yes, indeed they did. Thank you for spreading the word...
Very good essay. Roman's have a lot to answer for. But the virtual Palestine "cause" has taken off with due to the following factors.
1) Social media explosion 2) Dumbing down of humanity.
3) Inability of human beings to maintain their attention span for more than 2 mins
4) The rapidly dying ability for humanity to read long form (forget books).
5) Suprisinfly savvy social media narratives created by the people supporting "Palestine".
Causation/Correlation, I don't know.
But I never ever actually believed that in my life time, the Jewish people would have to defend their right to exist. But then I never thought a bankrupt real estate guy from New York would be POTUS twice.
Thanks for your thoughtful comment!
It is obvious that there is no historical argument for a Palestinian people in the sense of an ethnic or otherwise recognizable cohesive social continuity. This is an important point. That said we are still left with the reality of those people living in the area discussed and respecting their human dignity is never in question.
Yes, I agree completely. The Arabs within Israel proper (20% of the population) enjoy full civil rights under law, and they work in all sectors of Israeli society, including health care and high tech. Their human dignity is never called into question. Unfortunately, there are also Arabs that have been fed a steady diet of lies and incitement, both in and around Israel. And they have been convinced through propaganda and brainwashing that the Jews are evil creatures who stole their land. And that their highest goal in life must be to murder their Jewish neighbors. And that remains the biggest obstacle to peace.
Great work.
Thank you!
A very thoughtful and creative framing of the so called "Palestinian" issue. Virtual Palestine - spot on. Thank you for an informative essay.
It’s a pleasure to connect with appreciative readers. Thanks for the kind words!
And then, just to balance things out when it comes to denying the existence of a people, there is the best selling book “The Invention of the Jewish People” by Professor Shlomo Sand of Tel Aviv University.
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/233025/the-invention-of-the-jewish-people-by-shlomo-sand/
...and the best selling book "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion"...just saying
I don’t believe your suggested book was a best seller in Israel, written by a Jewish professor at the major university in Tel Aviv.
Nice attempt at a deflection though.
Sands is a professor in French nationalism and cinema with no expertise in Jewish history. His intellectual slant is as a communist, anti-nationalist, anti-zionist. His purpose was to invalidate the notion of a Jewish people/nation with roots in ancestral homeland dating back 3000 years. In his book he provides no source material and merely brushes off the plethora of contrary historiography as fabrication. The book is an exemplar of cherry-picking confirmation bias.
By the way, are you familiar with the Protocols? You would be correct about it's lack of popularity in Israel.
Well, if we can’t agree that having ancestors who lived on and in a land for a mere 125 uninterrupted generations isn’t enough to make a claim to a homeland then I’m sure that you and I both agree that the only alternative sound basis for foreigners to declare a right to a homeland in Palestine is DNA testing to ensure that only people with DNA matching the DNA of the ancestors who lived there 1500 years ago are granted the right to this homeland. Merely saying one is a cultural Jew is certainly not enough if there is little to no DNA connection.
Perhaps this is why Israel is so vigorously opposed to DNA testing?
Firstly, Jews have always lived in their homeland, with presence in Jerusalem, Tiberius, Safed, Gaza, Yaffo/Acre; Beer Sheva, Shechem (now known as Hebron)...I could go on, but you get the point, I'm sure. Arabs( as in Arabian peninsula - Yemen actually) arrived in the 5 th century AD the earliest, so who exactly are you referring to as "foreigner"? I'm pretty sure 3000 years trump's ( no pun intended, believe me) 1500 years, no? The further irony is that "non-Jews" living in the land for generations -not the mass immigration of Moslems from Andalusia that coincided with Jewish immigration from Europe ( eastern and southern) at the end of the 19th century, or the immigration from Syria and Egypt in the 20th century looking for work as the growing Jewish population had cleared the swamps, eradicated malaria and irrigated the deserts,improving life expectancy that had been only 25 years among the non-Jews at the beginning of the 20 th century, as well as infant survival - those non-Jews living in the area were most likely the descendents of forced conversions of native Jews by Christians and Moslems in the Middle Ages.
The DNA issue is a straw man as the Jewish nation has always been multi-ethnic and multi-racial, not to mention the genetic material issue can certainly cut both ways. By the way, perhaps you've been listening to too much Bilzarian BS...genetic testing is quite permissable in Israel...it is prohibited in France, I believe.
So now we’re arguing about whether people should be dispossessed based on 1500 vs 3000 years, even if all those from the tribe making the claim based on the 3000 number were absent for a mere 1000 plus years? You really want to rely on that argument? Even where Ashkenazis with little to no Levantine DNA are concerned?
Hopefully you’ve noted that I’ve never said the Jews should leave Palestine, while you skew very close to indicating the opposite. It’s clear that the two state solution is dead and has been since the demise of Oslo and the endless movement of squatters onto stolen land outside Israel’s borders. So we are moving on to a one state “from the river to the sea” solution at Israel’s initiative where, initially, the populations of each of the two tribes will be about equal. It’s long been recognized the demographics will inevitably lead to an indigenous Arab majority. We both know the old chestnut about how Israel could be either a Jewish state or a democracy but not both. Well, here we are.
Even you won’t suggest ethnic cleansing based on the premise that your neighbors should be driven out since their ancestors have only been there for a mere 1500 years (while a Jew who hasn’t had an ancestor in Palestine for any of those 1500 years can move there from Chicago and instantaneously have 50 times the rights of the indigenous people). The Arabs aren’t leaving, nor should the Jews. Rwanda and Ireland have shown us that two tribes in conflict can live together in relative peace and equality.
Democracy, one person/one vote, majority rule that protects the rights of the minority, a state of all its people with absolutely equal rights for all.
If you find any of these things objectionable given the outcome that Israel has unilaterally selected, please advise.
He is an atheist, to boot, which makes it all the more ironic...a Jewish atheist that asserts Judaism is merely a religion, not a nationality...hmmm
Not at all unusual in Israel, where well north of half of the Jews are non-observant agnostics. The figures are worse than that in the U.S. Yet we continuously hear that all of Palestine without question belongs to Israel because God said so.
We also frequently hear that Jews who accept Jesus as their Messiah have forfeited the right to be Jews but that Jews who don’t believe in God at all are still Jews in good standing. Go figure…
Now I can't speak to what "you might hear" about the rational of Jewish indigenous claim to Israel, nor what might constitute "a Jew in good standing"- perhaps you might venture out of your echo chamber, if the cognitive dissonance isn't too painful for you
I’m outside my echo chamber right here in this string of comments.
So you are, and I am glad. We are probably of similar age and are able to enjoy a little substack trash talking without getting our hackles up…now if I could only figure out how to do a”smiley face” emoji, I would! Wait, there it is!😀
Thanks are due to you and Dan for carrying on a conversation on this supremely contentious topic without descending into bitterness and ad hominem attacks. If this is "substack trash talking," then you two have set a gold standard that is truly admirable.
Pray for peace. Back at you!😅
Now do the Invention of Israel.
Someone who constantly plays the victim is playing you. Looking at you Jews
And have you read about the Palestinian national heritage museum? https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-museum-to-open-without-exhibition/
They are currently working overtime to create some ancient artifacts to fill the museum. :)
Are they working overtime because so many of their staff (and their families) have been shredded by bombs or shot?
Israel should set up something like BDS and get people to boycott Palestinian products – oh, wait a minute- they don’t produce any. Even the keffiyehs are made in China.
I’m not even Jewish, but I still have a negative ,visceral reaction when I see these keffiyehs in the news splice.
I suspect it's genetic, connected in some way to the self-preservation instinct! 😅
Why?
Your comment was somewhat ambiguous so I visited your substack and now I understand where you are coming from. Hardcore antisemites who incite Jew-hatred through malicious, patently false propaganda are not welcome here.
Both sides seem adept at playing the victim, but one side has much greater ability to magnify victimhood via the media.
History and the lies we are shove down our throat by governments will never say that until we get rid of the governments!